DISQUS

Printfaster · 7 months ago

Ackman aims to destroy Target. Just because one of his hedge funds own s a chunk of TGT does not mean the rest are net short or put heavy. Good golly man, who needs a hedge fund that 87% invested in TGT? I can buy TGT without the help of Ackman and his fees thank you.

People must be idiots to not see what is coming. He aims to destroy target through a shorting campaign that intends to drain the credit of the company, entailing a collapse of the business. Think of stipping back the company so that they need to borrow on it RE. Collapse of assets and the attack can then begin in earnest.

Ackman is a business killer. TGT employees and customers will appreciated. Of course Macy's and other retailers would love less competition. They will send their love letters to Ackman.

marketfolly · 7 months ago

Totally agree with you regarding investing in one position in a hedge fund.. Ackman himself has said he'll never do it again. The one thing you have to consider though as an investor is that Ackman did not reveal what the position was at first, investors were merely trusting his expertise. Eventually, it leaked what the position was and how troublesome it was for them. All in all, very poor decisions both by Ackman to construct it that way and by investors to follow blindly into a completely non-diversified fund with leverage.

For the record I am not a fan of his REIT plan either... but then again I am not a TGT shareholder and I never in my life have been (nor will I ever be I don't think). Crazy situation overall. Thanks for the comment.

s · 6 months ago

ackman is not destroying target but he is adding value to shareholders and he is helping the company save money and operate more efficiently. Try to understand the reit stratetgy before you make any conclusions

marketfolly · 6 months ago

Oh I'm not making any conclusions until things actually start to progress at Target, merely a spectator. I was just stating my opinion. My gut instinct was that I wasn't a fan of the REIT plan just because I'm still not sure how it solves their problems. Ackman is also working diligently in the other areas that need attention though too. It will certainly be a long and drawn out process.

douglaslee · 1 month ago

I live in Minneapolis. Have all my life. I remember Target all the way back to the 1960's. Target was created by the Dayton-Hudson company, which was revered by Minnesotans for many, many decades. A Christmas tradition was to go to the 8th floor Christmas display, which was a sort of weird mystical dark fantasy land, that children were exalted by. I remember as a kid walking down the Nicollet Mall (where the Daytons flagship store was) in the deep cold winter, and when we got to 7th Street, all the sidewalks were clear and dry, because THEY WERE HEATED! I don't know, maybe this is common now, maybe in New York or someplace, but at the time (in the early 1970's or late 1960's), it was amazing. We'd be mushing down the street for blocks, in snow 8 inches deep, then we'd get to this dry sidewalk, and we'd knock our boots on the gournd to knock off all the snow, then walk down the block like we were in our living room.

When I was in high school my brother and I used to take the bus downtown from Wayzata (a long bus ride) and we'd buy $3 worth of candy at the Dayton's candy counter. That was a big deal ! And I remember the first time I ever saw a solid one ounce bar of silver, in the display rack in the Dayton's Coin Department. It was beautiful. I remember the day when I was about 14 years old, when the massive brown Dayton's delivery truck backed up the driveway of our house and delivered the new beds for my brother and I. Wow, new beds !!

The Dayton Family has been one of the great towering philanthropic forces and "community citizens" of Mpls for many many decades. They are extremely well thought of here, even loved. I have not followed the evolution and ownership changes of the Daytons and Target chains, over the years, but I know there has been a lot of splitting/acquiring/merging. I could not even tell you now where the original department store portion of the company ended up. Macy's maybe? I remember names like Marshall Field, maybe Federated?, I don't even know how many different changes the whole family tree of the companies have gone through. My understanding is that Target was split off as a separate company long ago, but I could be a little off about that. But I do know that Target was originally part of, and created by "Daytons", and we used to call the Dayton Hudson stores.

I know very little about "hedge funds", "proxy battles", etc, just the very basics. I have to admit, this guy comes off extremely well on TV, as I have just today watched the CNBC clip, and the Charlie Rose clip. BUT, I have this little nagging thought and feeling in my mind that reminds me of the whole Icahn/Milken corporate raider crowd, and Gordon Gecko. Ackman does not have quite that slick slimey look and feel to him, but I think it's probably there.

My gut feel is like Charlie Sheen's dad in Wall Street-"If it's this "scum" that created this company, then I'll take my chances with them over you any day".

I am not well informed about these high level corporate matters, but I don't get (I guess I'm a babe in the woods) this whole idea about some New York gazillionaire suddenly showing up at the doorstep saying he can run the company better than the people who've been building it for the last 100 years.

Mark Dayton ran for and won a seat in the U.S. Senate, then declined to run again because the place was too sleazy for him. I don't know, at this point, with all the ownership changes, maybe the Dayton family is not even involved in managing, or directing, or owning, any part of the empire they built ( I did say above that I am fairly ignorant on these matters).

These video clips were from early 2009, and if I remember correctly the main thrust of what I read in the local papers this last summer, I believe this guy lost his battle. I guess after watching these clips, I'm glad of that.

I worked for two weeks in the I.T. department of the main Minneapolis Headquarters building of Target, in downtown Mpls, about 4 years or so ago. It certainly seemed to be awfully well run. They had a green neon ticker sign, about 4 inches high, above every long hallway, on every floor of the building, that constantly streamed the percentage of "in stock" items that were in their current advertising. It was measured to two decimals, and changed minute to minute. When I was there, the numbers were in the 98.xx% range. I thought, wow, everybody in this 30 story building knows (and is being focused on) the percent availability of what is in the weekly ads.

I don't know, I guess it's the way business and finance work these days, but there seems to be something totally wrong about somebody trying to just "takeover" 100 years of other peoples' work and creation, simply because he has a bunch of money to throw around. Just because he can maneuver financing from a bunch of New York bankers doesn't make it the right thing. Shareholder value, Schmareholder value. After Mr. Bill Ackman spends a lifetime creating something solid, from scratch, and contributing to a local community, something tangible beyond just raising the value of a stock certificate by a dollar, which he will abandon before the parchment starts to curl, then he's welcome to come back and see us here.

I've been following the business news and reading the newspapers for 30 years, and every time I see the words "unleash shareholder value" uttered by somebody new that comes in to buy out a company or it's management, it is usually soon followed by thousands or tens of thousands of people loosing their jobs and livelihoods. Nobody ever seems very concerned about their "value". I wish more people were old enough to remember the "LBO" period in the 1980's, what is euphemistically now referred to as "private equity". I've seen that story before. New name, Same old story. Come in, break a company up, fire half (or more) of the people who do the actual work, sell the pieces, loot the lifetime built up value of the company, split town, and go back home and buy a bigger yacht. God, I'm startin' to get steamed now just thinking about it.

If it were a good and sound and profitable long term business decision to sell the land the Target Stores sit on, dont'cha think maybe the guys who run the company right now might have already 'thunk 'ah dat? Like they need Mr. Ackman to come in and lead them around? I mean yeah, we're midwesterners, and yeah, we get to the office every day on carts hauled by horses, but still.........

I have no idea what it is like these days to work at whatever became of the "old Daytons" stores, but I emphasize again, from the Mpls-St.Paul community point of view, this is one of the greatest families to have ever lived in the state. My best friend (an older gentleman) has known the senior Dayton family for decades, and he tells me they are truly wonderful people, and he doesn't fuck around about stuff like that.

So, I know my comments are outdated and late, and moot, and probably somewhat ignorant and unsophisticated, but I just felt like throwing in the point of view of a lifelong Minneapolis area resident. This family has done more for the Minneapolis culture and community than nearly any family I can think of, right up there with the Pillsbury's, the Cowles, etc. They have donated HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single building or cause that has their name on it, either. In other words, they DON'T say "we'll be the main donor to this cause if you put our name on the building, so everybody will know WE donated the biggest part". I just haven't seen that kind of ego play from any of them. They have been the motive force behind most of the major art and culture development in the area for many decades, along with a few of the other well know families. I can think of other familes that have auditoriums or stadiums or buildings named after them, but to the best of my memory, the Daytons have never done that. I highly doubt I would see the "Ackman Center for the Arts", with $100 million of donations from Mr. Ackman. Maybe there would be such a building, but not because he would contribute to the building of something with eternal community value. If I remember correctly, and I think I do, that the Dayton Family was either the, or one of the, prime movers in what we here locally call the "5% Club", 5% of all profits put back into the community. I think it may have even been the "10% Club" at one time, I'm not sure. They practically carried the whole of the United Way here on their backs. What kind of historical record does Mr. Bill Ackman have in that regard? I certainly never heard of him before this whole "control of Target" thing came up.

-Douglas Lee
Mpls MN
Nov 9 - 2009

marketfolly · 1 month ago

Douglas, thanks so much for your comprehensive post about your experiences with the retailer. Very insightful stuff and this is the kind of impression they have made on customers and members of the community and it's very impressive. Don't worry about being unfamiliar with Ackman and his hedge fund gang as everyone is new to a topic at some point. While (as you point out) he doesn't come across as a corporate raider, he is definitely pushing for change. I don't think he personally thinks he can run the company better, but he has identified changes that they can make in order to run more efficiently and position themselves better going forward. He indeed is very well-spoken and has always been that way, which of course downplays what he is there to do: institute change. I wouldn't view it as a tyrannic takeover by any means, but yes it must be odd to people like yourself who have never heard of him and then he all of a sudden barges in.

He is a successful hedge fund manager that runs investment funds worth billions of dollars. If you type in "Ackman" on the search bar on our site you'll find plenty of other information on him. His father was involved in real estate and as such he has taken on knowledge in that regard. He is very well known within the investment community and I'd almost venture to say he 'leverages the public' in that he is always getting out and promoting his ideas and investment positions so that everyone will better understand and not be afraid. On one hand I'd say he has good intentions, but on the other hand he's running a fund that is dependent on performance results, which means that he eventually needs shares of TGT (and his other positions) to head in the direction he is wagering.

Hope this helps and again sincere thanks for taking the time to pen your comment, very interesting stories.

Jay
@marketfolly